Obey and Submit
Excerpt from "Twisted Scriptures" by Mary Chrnalogar

“Obey” and “submit” are two more words often twisted by abusive discipleships. In abusive discipleships, the chief virtue is not love, but obedience. Obedience in abusive discipleships can be honoured even when a leader gives wrong advice. One of the many Bible stories that is used to convince disciples to obey and submit to even bad advice is that of Abraham, Sarah, and Pharaoh (Gen. 12:10-20). Abraham asked his wife, Sarah, to lie to the Egyptians and say that she was his sister. Abraham was afraid the Egyptians might have him killed because Sarah was so beautiful. As a result of the lie, Sarah was taken into Pharaoh’s palace and Abraham was treated well. Because of the lie, however, God inflicted diseases on the Egyptians and the lie was revealed.

It is said in some discipleships that because Sarah submitted to Abraham, God protected her and blessed her. The implication is that if you follow the advice of your discipler [leader] – even if he or she is wrong – God will protect and bless you. This is surely warped thinking. The Bible does not tell us that Abraham and Sarah were without failing or sin. If there is a clear lesson in Abraham’s lies, it is that we may sin and God may punish, but He will always forgive us if we truly repent.

One time I worked with a person who admitted that his discipler was corrupt. “How can you follow someone like that?” I asked him. His response was, “According to 1 Samuel, God will remove bad leadership.” This disciple thought he needed to obey his bad leader until God removed this discipler. I did remind him that David fled into the wilderness to escape his wicked ruler. The truth is, we can rationalize anything from Scripture if we twist words far enough.

To gain a Biblical understanding of "obey", we will do a short word study in the Greek of the New Testament, because there are several Greek words all translated "obey" in our English Bibles. When we read words in the Bible, we have to understand that they originally had different ranges of meanings for the early Christians. For example, we might be tempted to understand every use of "lord" in the Scriptures as denoting a figure of great authority, but sometimes "lord" is simply a term of respect (e.g., "sir"). In studying the Bible, therefore, we must try to understand words through their original Scriptural context and definitions. When these meanings are changed, or when a definition is imposed on words they did not originally have, distortion of language occurs.

The first Greek word in the Vine's Dictionary for "obey" is hupakouo which means "to listen, attend." It is used 21 times in the New Testament. "To listen" surely doesn't sound like our modern idea of "obey." This word is used in 1 Peter 3:6: "like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master."

The second Greek word for "obey" is peitho, which means to "persuade, to win over," and in the passive and middle voices, "to be persuaded, to listen to." Again, this is not our modern understanding of "obey". In another place, peitho is translated "obey" in Hebrews 13:17: "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority." Here, "obey" means to "listen to your leaders and if they win you by persuasion then yield to this advice." This is much different than the sense of "absolute obedience" that is often poured into this passage. Furthermore, in Hebrews 13:17, Jesus and his disciples clearly taught that leaders were to serve their followers, not dominate them (Matt. 20:25-28; Luke 22:25-27; I Peter 5:3: "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock").

The third Greek word, peitharcheo, most closely resembles our modern English understanding of "obey." It is used only four times in the New Testament! It appears in Acts 5:29: "But Peter and the Apostles answered and said, 'We must obey God rather than men.'" In the Vine's Dictionary, peitharcheo is translated, "to obey one in authority." You will find this term in Titus 3:1: "Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to do every good work." Here again, "obey" is qualified: we obey to be ready for only good work! The context implies that we don't obey magistrates when they ask us to do something evil or against our conscience.

pp. 89-91

Wow that is a very good study Dave and great insight. Reveals the false doctrine we used to live under. I like the second one "persuade or win over" lol. I can see it nnow, your Pastor asks you to do something and you say to him "persuade me!!" hahaha

The way a pastor "persuades" a congregation is through his testimony:

I Tim 3:1-6: "This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, ... not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules his own house well ... not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil."

Through a pastor's rapport and servant heart, he is able to win over the congregation. He does not have the authority to "lord it over" them, but in matters of church authority, they will desire to listen to him and not grate against him.

At the end of Hebrews 13:17, it says "Let them [have authority] with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you." If a pastor holds a good testimony and are not over-reaching their authority, then be happy to obey in matters of church conduct and ministry. Don't be an unnecessary burden.

I like the end of the passage in I Timothy 3:
Verse 7: "Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside"

If he doesn't have a good rapport with those who are unsaved whom he comes into contact with (or perhaps those who have left the church), then according to this passage, it's probably not a good idea that he is a pastor.

wow, it shows how easily persuaded we can all be.
It also show how much greater the call to pastor God's flock becomes when in essence it's a call to serve, not to lord or a call to authority.

DaVe wrote:I like the end of the passage in I Timothy 3:
Verse 7: "Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside"

Bit like the Parable from Jesus when he told us to make friends with men of mammon (did I get that right??)