Hi all.

Just to get the word out there about Ecc Joondalup. I was surprised (though i shouldn't be) to have some PHBB call both my parents in law and my wife to get confirmation that our church had wigged out, turned to ruins, shut down and that we (Christine and I) were sorry to all the Ph people we ever pulled out the church………..

Let me say this firstly, and make it very clear to all…. I don’t feel sorry about the name change at all, and I am quite comfortable with my / our decision on becoming ECC Joondalup………… and secondly, the church is still there going well and moving forward. The saints are still coming along, tithing, being involved in ministry and in love with God…….

There was one family that left and went to join the new Ph coming to Joondalup, But if I may add to that, the reason that they left was not because they did not want to be apart of what we were doing, but that the friends they had over in BB said to them and I quote, Quote - “You are now out of the will of God” “your destiny is in the Ph” (To anyone saying things like that I say “stop preaching false doctrine, and don’t play God……..Let him do his job of telling people where they should be himself, He’s well capable of doing it all on his own”). Another thing being said to them was, Quote - “You are now in danger of going to hell” (Let me say on this firstly that that is spiritual abuse. Using fear tactics on a brother or sis in Christ to get them to do what “you” think they should do by putting a spiritual guilt trip on them really is spiritual abuse. My recommendation to all, is not to abuse any of Gods children in any way as it will as they say “come back to bite you in the bum”… Secondly it’s hypocrisy. I know for a fact there are people from other churches in Ph (as I was there) and yet for some reason that is never seen as “going to hell, or out of the will of God…….” And so on, only if you leave…….It’s such a double standard…)

I know all this as the family (mentioned above) came over to my house the other day (for 6.5hrs) and poured out their hearts in frustration at what was being said to them and what they were being told about us….and we all know that confusion and frustration is not coming from God……. Even though they have left I still love them and would do anything to help them out (which we did, they were short on cash so we filled their pantry and fridge with food, and I cooked them a lovely breakfast and threw in a little council). I did not do this to try “get them back”, which I made very clear to them, but only to do what any “Christian” should do and that is help a brother (or sis) in need…….

Having said that I will now say this, as a help to those in Ph (Pleasssssssse take this in the spirit in which I’m writing this. It’s not to try to get you out of Ph but, to help you see a serious even deadly flaw inside Ph…). The only reason that our church was ever even in danger of not going to well, was not because of pulling out from Ph and having the name changed to Ecc neither was it a headship issue as God is still my headship, but it was from the relentless pursuit of Phbb saints towards the folks in our church. Trying to pull out, put down, discredit, slander and even lie (about My wife and I) simply to get people out of our church. You need to look at what is really going on here.

The two churches (wheather you agree or not) are part of the same thing…… Guys it’s called “THE KINGDOM OF GOD”…. Who do we, as Christians, think we are trying to pull down another church, another part of the kingdom of God, another Christian…? Guys this has got to stop……..Imagine God in heaven looking down and seeing some of his children trying to pull down others…….

God has shown me something lately about the vastness of his kingdom. About 4-6wks ago I was contacted by a pastor from another fellowship who had heard about what had recently happened to our church (the split). He called just to tell me he wanted to support us and help us in any way he can. About two weeks ago I was contacted by another pastor in Joondalup who is holding a meeting for all pastors in the Joondalup area (No matter what denomination there from) to get together and have fellowship, and breakfast at his church. He had told me that he wanted to help us and do anything that he could to help our church grow, and anything he could to help my wife and I. All this and we’ve never even met………

Why is there on one hand a church we’ve never known trying to help and support us, and on the other hand a church where we had many friends and even family trying to destroy us…… It makes no sense to me. As I looked at it like that (realizing I was once like it) I was horrified at the absolute error of it all……

I am fully aware that not everyone in Ph thinks and acts like this, but many do especially the Headship…… I think that it’s up to the good people there to approach even challenge your pastor’s / headship on this issue. There needs to be a getting along with everyone, as God’s children are all going to the same place one day no matter which church/s your attending………..

So at least now you can say to everyone that tells you that Ecc Joondalup has crashed and burned that it’s a lie and just rumor scare tactics………….

I hope with all my heart that all God’s kingdom grows and enlarges this year (no matter which church) and God’s children can all get along………….

God bless Mearnsie………….

Very sad that false rumors are being spread about people. I heard many false things about people who had left the fellowship. I found out the truth about these people who had so called "backslidden and ruined their lives"

Good on you Mearnsie for not retaliating. You are showing a good example of what it means to be a Christian. Testimonies like yours encourage people to serve God.

The good thing in what you have done is you have extended charity to someone even when you may not get anything back in return. God Bless you.

Darth Vader wrote:Very sad that false rumors are being spread about people. I heard many false things about people who had left the fellowship. I found out the truth about these people who had so called "backslidden and ruined their lives"

Good on you Mearnsie for not retaliating. You are showing a good example of what it means to be a Christian. Testimonies like yours encourage people to serve God.

The good thing in what you have done is you have extended charity to someone even when you may not get anything back in return. God Bless you.

hey all
just wanted to say that what really matters is the condition of our hearts towards god and eachother and what mearnsie did was the perfect example of how true christians should be act.mearnsie has always been a fine example to many of the people that know him and now we are seeing god do something awesome in his life and his church.well done bro your an inspiration to many of us me included.

mearnsie wrote: I think that it’s up to the good people there to approach even challenge your pastor’s / headship on this issue.

That's a tough call. I remember how hard it was when I first addressed my pastor on issues that were going on in my church. I literally shook while I talked to him. He said it was the fear of God coming upon me for questioning him (or something along those lines). In reality, it was the fear of questioning my pastor in a fellowship where you don't question your pastor. I had to continue talking to him about several things over the weeks that followed, but after that first time it was much easier.

Hi aza.

Yeah it is a tough call bro. But the problem is that i keep hearing from many people in Ph that they are waiting for things to change. There is not going to be some lightning bolt hit the headship and then...."BANG"....change happens. The truth is that the "people" or for want of a better word "church" must hold the pastor and even headship into account in accodrance to what they are preaching and teaching..... Example - Gal 1:6-10 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.


Even the great leader / preacher / evangelist Paul says to the church, "If i preach something either not gospel or wrong make me accursed". That word accursed = Curse or declare to be evil or anathema or threaten with divine punishment. How interesting this is, he challenges them to keep him in check.

Lets be honest in saying that we all need this. It's not enough to have a few people who are your best buddies (yes men type of people) keeping you in check, but you need the broard spectrum of people in your church doing this (as Paul did) to bring balance and keep things truthful, doctrinally correct and in line.

This is why i think the pastor needs the church just as much as the church needs the pastor......

Mearnsie...!

Can't disagree with you there, Mearnsie.

Let me add to what I said. Yes, it was tough, but it was worth it. I look back now and wonder where I would be if I had done nothing. I think in a far worse condition.

Aaron

bro. And so would i if i had not done what i did (challenge and ask questions) too.......

Good on you Mearnsie! Surely I say... God has anointed you with wisdom!

Luk 9:49,50. And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out demons in Your name. And we prevented him, because he does not follow us. And Jesus said to him, Do not prevent him, for he who is not against us is for us.

Meansie, you’re dealing with an old issue...the fellowship has taken an “exclusive” mindset that excludes others … even to the point of bringing accusations against other ministries…hence it was an issue for those in ministry to endorse something like Brownsvilles. In your heart you knew it was a work of God, BUT to maintain fellowship you kept anonymity. Speaking metaphorically.

So outside the fellowship there is no “church” that does the will of God like the fellowship, and in their ignorance they destroy rather than build.

aza1701 wrote:
That's a tough call. I remember how hard it was when I first addressed my pastor on issues that were going on in my church. I literally shook while I talked to him. He said it was the fear of God coming upon me for questioning him (or something along those lines). In reality, it was the fear of questioning my pastor in a fellowship where you don't question your pastor. I had to continue talking to him about several things over the weeks that followed, but after that first time it was much easier.

What possesses a person to think 'You're wrong and I'm right! I have heard God and you have'nt! Surely it is a thing called PRIDE! How dare you question me. Do you know who I am!

seagull wrote:What possesses a person to think 'You're wrong and I'm right! I have heard God and you have'nt! Surely it is a thing called PRIDE! How dare you question me. Do you know who I am!

I believe that was the primary reason our church collapsed. Pride. All the events that preceded the collapse can be ultimately traced back to that one sin.

I was also told, "I'm your pastor, not your friend." That left me in some shock. All I could think of was the scripture where Jesus said to his disciples he no longer called them servants but now he called them friends. How come Jesus could be my friend but my pastor couldn't?

Don't get me wrong, I understand that a pastoral role is not a buddy-buddy best friend thing, but the context of our conversation was definitely unbalanced and designed to 'put me in my place'. Pride is definitely an ugly thing.

Prov 6:16-19 These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him: 17 A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil, 19 A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.

I think that there was a large issue of pride in the events that took place, but look closely and you'll see many more eg - "False wittness" "Discord among brethren"........... But yes mostly pride....... "Anyone got a pin......LOL

Needless to say, and I have no reason to doubt your report ps Chris.

I'm very disappointed when I hear that people are saying to 'brethren', "You're now out of the will of God" etc (and worst) because people are no longer in the Potter'shouse. As if we Patent the will of our Father!)

Recently we had a couple from out of town and from an interstate AoG.
They were on holidays for several weeks in our district and fellowshipped with us, evan though they were from another fellowship, (and there is a pretty good AoG here in town) they made our 'Potterhouse' as there base.

They gave a good report on our modest church, preaching, hospitality and so on.

That was very incouraging for us...

..but gee wiz it just down right disturbing to hear what has transpired in other PH fellowship church around Australia in regard to the tongue.

I wish my fellowship brethren could just get on with it....but Jesus said that He would sift the wheat from the charf.

My hope is that the entire Body of Christ would just stay Word focussed, Love and obey God, help the needy, teach, exhort, discipline and discipleship and present Her blameless and spotless.

For surely, our redemption draws nigh!

Alpine - and yes it wet and overcast.....but needed

seagull wrote:Good on you Mearnsie! Surely I say... God has anointed you with wisdom!

Most of the time.....

alpine wrote:

seagull wrote:Good on you Mearnsie! Surely I say... God has anointed you with wisdom!

Most of the time.....

And humble too!

Yes, well done on the post Mearnsie, let's just say I had a interesting conversation with that persons husband on the weekend. I had just walked over to instigate a friendly conversation with him to show that no bitterness or contempt was between those who left and those who stayed, and the next thing i know know he was telling me how full of love and grace WM was and that my pastor's needed to repent. HA HA what a Joke!!!!!!

I'm sorry, I thought you said 'Will & Grace'

Mythbuster wrote:Yes, well done on the post Mearnsie, let's just say I had a interesting conversation with that persons husband on the weekend. I had just walked over to instigate a friendly conversation with him to show that no bitterness or contempt was between those who left and those who stayed, and the next thing i know know he was telling me how full of love and grace WM was and that my pastor's needed to repent. HA HA what a Joke!!!!!!

I wonder if he's experienced WM's 'love and grace' firsthand...

Yeah I personally, have noted that PM's frequent use of the word "slut" accross the pulpit is a verbal demonstration of his depth of "love & Grace", I allways feel so warm and fuzzy when he says it,..in that special way, that only he can

aweebitopinionated wrote:Yeah I personally, have noted that PM's frequent use of the word "slut" accross the pulpit is a verbal demonstration of his depth of "love & Grace", I allways feel so warm and fuzzy when he says it,..in that special way, that only he can

I personally would like to know if any of the "board of elders" he is in submission to has ever pulled him up on it. If not, why not. And if they have, why does he continue. There are no right answers to these questions as the language is inexcusable from a man of God, let along coming across the pulpit.

I might ask PM next time I'm in trouble and get 5 minutes with him

back2school wrote:

aweebitopinionated wrote:Yeah I personally, have noted that PM's frequent use of the word "slut" accross the pulpit is a verbal demonstration of his depth of "love & Grace", I allways feel so warm and fuzzy when he says it,..in that special way, that only he can

I personally would like to know if any of the "board of elders" he is in submission to has ever pulled him up on it. If not, why not. And if they have, why does he continue. There are no right answers to these questions as the language is inexcusable from a man of God, let along coming across the pulpit.

I might ask PM next time I'm in trouble and get 5 minutes with him

I think he actually prides himself in his lack of "Pollitical Correctness", I've also seen him tell a new convert who went up for healing, to "put away her Boobies",right after he'd asked her how long she'd been saved, and she'd told him "about a week",(this was at an area wide rally, over the microphone).. way to scare em right out the door PM!!!....so much grace, it almost brings a tear to my eye..

No one's gonna pull him up on it, they all just laugh it off as part of his "eccentricity", and some of the elders even embrace the same abrasive style.

It is so sad that years ago I was the one cheering and appauding at the slamming of others churches at conference, and the abrasive, contraversial vocabulary coming from WM.

He wouldn't know love and grace, even if it hit him between the eyes.

Mythbuster wrote:It is so sad that years ago I was the one cheering and appauding at the slamming of others churches at conference, and the abrasive, contraversial vocabulary coming from WM.

He wouldn't know love and grace, even if it hit him between the eyes.

LOL I think that there would be a massive line of people waiting to do it..... "Hit him right beetween the eyes with a great big piece of love and grace" "of course"....

Mythbuster wrote:It is so sad that years ago I was the one cheering and appauding at the slamming of others churches at conference, and the abrasive, contraversial vocabulary coming from WM...

I know how you feel, bro.

too true - I commented to someone the other day that it's amazing how much nothing has really changed in ECC yet it feels like everything has changed....if ya know what I mean...