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by DaVe on Sun 8 Nov 2009 - 21:24What are the main concerns with the Potters House?
Before you read on, please note that there is no slander in this writing and no names are mentioned. Nor are there any rumours or hearsay. If you believe that this article is likely going to be wrong, then you have nothing to fear in reading it. At the least, please have a quick browse as we approach a few honest concerns.
While much of the teaching in the Potters House is good, these are the main concerns addressed on this forum:
- There is almost no good way to leave the Potters House. In the majority of cases, members who leave will be looked down upon by others in the congregation. They are generally labelled by those in the congregation as one of three things: lukewarm, backslidden, or “in rebellion” (AKA “out of the will of God” or “missing God”). Occasionally, depending on the pastor, ex-members and ex-pastors will be mentioned over the pulpit in a negative light. Not always by name, but their identity will usually be thinly veiled. There will also be horror stories preached over the pulpit of what happens to members once they leave. When you leave, you find out that many of these stories were untrue or had a particular slant to them. Sometimes you find the stories were indeed true, and many times are a result of the ex-members' inability to trust pastors or churches again due to their personal experience in the Potters House.
More information:
One of the Most Disturbing Aspects of the Fellowship
Disgrace upon Departure
Overcoming Rebellion
Covenant
Yucca Valley Testimony
- Members are taught that the pastor is their ‘headship’ and there is a strong feeling that disobedience or disagreeing with their pastor is almost like disobeying God. Members are taught to submit to their ‘headship’ even if they believe the pastor is wrong, since God will bless you anyway. It is also taught that those who leave the Potters House without approval from their pastor, are cursed or have opened themselves up to demonic attack because they are out from their pastor’s ‘covering'.
There is no biblical support for any of this. I Cor. 11:3 states that the head of every man is Christ. It does not say “the head of every man is the elder (pastor), and the head of every elder is Christ." If this were such a crucial and destiny-altering doctrine, Paul would've addressed it and made sure that members did not come out from their 'covering'. But he didn't. It's not New Testament teaching. Is God going to punish you and curse you for not adhering to a doctrine that's not even discussed in the New Testament? Some will say it is biblical, and then use Old Testament horror stories and out-of-context scriptures to fit this belief of unconditional obedience. Our pastor is not Moses or Saul. God's use of Old Testament servants was for a specific purpose and time. Moses was in charge of all of God's people on earth at the time, and spoke to God face to face. David may not have "touched the Lord's anointed", but he certainly wasn't obeying Saul either by running away into the wilderness.
Again, if the covering doctrine were such a crucial concept for believers under the new covenant, we would easily be able to locate it in New Testament scripture.
When the New Testament speaks of "headship", the only context is marriage. The husband is the wife's headship, and the head of the husband is Christ.
Pastors are not to 'lord it over' the flock, but lead by example (I Peter 5:3). Jesus said the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over the people, but it should not be among the brethren. He goes on to say that believers who desire greatness ought to become servants (Matt 20:25-26). This is a far cry from mindless obedience to a pastor and having a pastor dictate your life decisions, personal convictions, or what church you must go to. That's not servanthood. That's 'lording it over' a fellow believer.
More information:
Obey and Submit
Biblical Basis of Covering in the Shepherding Movement
Pulling Rank
Touch Not Mine Anointed
A Pastor's Authority
End of the Discipleship Era
- Members who leave for whatever reason are generally shunned by most of the congregation. Almost always, this shunning of ex-members is tied in to the belief that the ex-member is now out from their pastor's covering, and therefore out of the will of God. This makes it much easier to defend the shunning of an ex-member and acts as a blanket cover: no matter how legit the ex-member's reason for leaving is, the simple fact is they are out of their pastor's covering and therefore out of the will of God. They need to stay in the Potters House even if their pastor was wrong, since God will bless them anyway and eventually God will make it right. If they leave, then God can't bless them, and they will be open to attack from Satan. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.
Additional reasons given for shunning an ex-member is that they have a “rebellious spirit” or they're “lukewarm”, and so members do not want to "get that spirit on them” or associate with someone who "causes dissension". This is even if the ex-member simply wanted to change churches. It may not be verbally spoken, but the general idea is that if someone has a problem with the Potters House, then that person has a problem with their walk with God. It's not the church at fault, it's them.
The congregation is also taught that speaking to ex-members is a bad idea as they will be told lies about the Potters House and the members will then start to distrust their leadership as a result.
If the leadership has nothing to hide, then they have nothing to fear in what ex-members say. If an ex-member tells you something that you aren’t sure about, go to your pastor and see if you can corroborate the story if necessary. If the pastor tells you it’s none of your business or brushes you off in some way, then something is not right. The pastor may also mock the ex-member and go out of his way to put them down. That may also be a warning sign something is not right. Discrediting the source is usually the first port of call for pastors that do not want to honestly address issues. Even if an ex-member is no longer saved, it does not mean they are lying about their experience in the Potters House.
Aside from the faulty "covering" doctrine, the biblical basis used for shunning sits on one or two verses such as Rom. 16:17 (mark those who cause divisions contrary to doctrine) and I Cor. 5:11 (not to keep company with christians in unrepentant sin). As you can see, these verses refer to extreme circumstances and should rarely be applied. Above all, love for those in and out of the church needs to take priority and honest application of those scriptures should be at an absolute minimum. Christians should be working towards reconciliation not rejection.
Nevertheless members will shun the ex-member in most circumstances, either in an active manner by confronting them or ignoring them when spoken to, or in a passive manner by failing to follow up phone calls or finding excuses not to meet up. In the beginning, some may say they will definitely keep in touch, but most times this is an empty promise. I know, because I've been there and done that. This belief alone has caused untold damage to countless families. I would not be surprised if members of the Potters House are cutting more people off than they are winning into the church. Families and friendships are being broken up constantly and it's almost always due to the unbiblical mindsets mentioned above. How destructive and mindlessly pointless.
More information:
Shunning
Disgrace Upon Departure
One of the Most Disturbing Aspects of the Fellowship
What's the Big Deal
Overcoming Rebellion
- Members are taught that they need to stay in the church they got saved in. They say the church you got saved in is where God put you, and if you leave, you are out of God's will and destiny for your life. This is another unfounded and unbiblical 'doctrine'. Paul wrote that God sets the members in the Body as He sees fit. God sets the members. Not the pastor. Why should God be limited to using you in a single church alone for the rest of your life, when there may be much better opportunities for God to use your abilities elsewhere? What about life and career choices?
If you feel God leading you to another church, or if you feel you can be better used by God in another church, then so be it. If you feel the need to move to another city for whatever reason, then so be it. A pastor is not to 'lord it over' his congregation and dictate what they can or cannot do when it comes to life decisions. There is obviously a balance, and I don't mean to minimise a pastor's role in your life. You'd do well to ask your pastor for advice and feedback (not permission) on major changes in your life. This is discussed further in the links below.
More information:
Doctrine of Stay in the Church You Got Saved In
Latitude to Choose One's Spiritual Family
Disgrace Upon Departure
Whose Will is it?
- Pastors and churches outside of the Potters House are also commonly mocked or put down, many times over the pulpit. The basic gist is that these other churches are not doing what the Potters House is doing, and therefore they are lukewarm or inferior in some way. Elitism (“we’re the only ones doing it right”) is a very common attitude among abusive churches. How do these pastors know what's going on in every church? How can the members nod their head in agreement with the pastor, when most have never stepped into a non-Potters House church since they started attending the Potters House? Visiting outside churches is frowned upon, and you will likely be looked upon as lukewarm or unstable in your Christian walk.
The attitude of elitism gradually creeps in the longer you are in the Fellowship, and soon enough you will be mocking outside churches and pastors on a whim. This attitude then works its way down to you having disdain for other christians who don't hold the same convictions as you. Finally, you will then have contempt for those who aren't saved. You might talk to them long enough to hand them a flyer, but other than recruitment attempts, you'll find you have no time or respect for sinners.
More information:
To Destroy or Build Up?
Covenant
Control in Black and White
- Another concern is the media rules, specifically banning owning a TV and banning cinema attendance for all those in public ministry. This sets off warning bells even for fellow christians, let alone unbelievers or new converts who find out about this rule. These rules are a deal-breaker for many members, and along with every other point in this article, it is another unbiblical and unnecessary stumbling block that causes members to leave. No matter what spiritual spin is put on these rules, they are a perfect example of legalism: imposing one’s personal, non-essential convictions onto another. There are so many loopholes in these rules that when you analyze them, they fall apart. When you're busy asking your pastor if watching TV shows on YouTube is ok since you don't have a TV and it's not a movie, your pastor can only resort to the fact that "it comes down to your heart". And that's where it should've stayed: a personal conviction up to each believer.
The other side of this is the amazing amount of hypocrisy and distrust this breeds in the members. You will actually be afraid to discuss TV programs or movies at church in case you get caught (if you're in ministry), or at the least, labelled lukewarm by various self-righteous members. In regards to hypocrisy, pastors will watch TV and movies on holidays, on airplanes, at relatives' houses, etc. But you can't really blame them, since if you're in ministry you do the same anyway. The name of the game is don't get caught, and soon enough you'll get pretty good at it. Can you imagine coming from an outside church to the Potters House, and seeing this cloak and dagger circus all because of a television set? What a trip.
Even if you're not in ministry, simply having a TV in the Potters House shows you're not really up to scratch, and you're a lukie (lukewarm, that is). If you go to a movie, make sure it's at a cinema that most church people don't live near. Because chances are you'll be dobbed-in come Sunday morning. I think the last thing most pastors wants to do is throw you on "discipline" for watching a movie. But they are obligated to toe-the-Fellowship-line in the event someone turns you in. It really creates an atmosphere of distrust over such minor non-issues. These rules cultivate a false appearance of 'holiness' and aside from the odd hardcore legalistic disciple or two, members will only obey the rules enough for appearance purposes. They will give up TV to be in ministry, but they will walk the line as close as possible by watching TV at friends' houses or sneaking in a movie here and there.
Potters House members will tell you that the first thing people do when they leave the Potters House is get a TV because now they're lukewarm and want to "watch filth". In actuality, they get one because they never agreed with the rule in the first place. What they watch is up to their own convictions, it's not for a church or pastor to babysit them and tell them what they can or cannot watch.
More information:
I Don't Get It
RE: Confused (external link)
Control in Black and White
- There is a subtle over-dependence on works. You may not understand this one until you are out, but it is there. Many members feel pressured to show up at every event, and if they don’t they usually feel guilty that they are not doing enough for God, or that they are lukewarm in some way. Most of the time, the members feel this guilt of their own accord rather than a pastor telling them off. This is due to constant preaching that you always need to be doing this or that, or need to be at every event in order to prove yourself a worthy disciple or to stay on track for God. If you’re not there, then you're not on fire for God and you're flaking out. Other members in the church will be sure to remind you of that fact. Over time you begin to believe your salvation is as fragile as china. You begin to feel as though to keep your salvation, you need to constantly be doing something, repenting for something, or feeling convicted over something. If you dig deep enough, I'm sure you'll find something to feel guilty about, so you better hit that altar before you fall out of God's favour. Church attendance and good works are fine and will help your Christian walk, but doing them out of a fear of losing some part of your salvation or standing with God is the wrong mindset. The joy of salvation is that it is a free gift, not earned with three services a week, a concert, and a monthly revival.
That brings us to the busy monthly schedule to keep members involved. A church with a lot of functions is great. However in the Potters House, if you're in ministry you are told you must be at every event (whether you're involved or not). If you're not in ministry, you are told you should be at every event. Basically it becomes a spiritual guilt-trip. You're not displaying a good christian example if you're not molding every aspect of your life around the church calendar.
One of the problems with an extremely busy and guilt-driven church schedule is that members lose their ability to function with sinners in the real world. This is especially true of those who grew up in the Potters House, as you don't truly know what it's like outside of the Potters House bubble of never-ending church events. Let me explain. You become so caught up in your church, that you don't have time to be a christian example to your family and others. You're constantly rejecting them because you need to be at a revival meeting, or a concert, or a service. You end up neglecting those around you whom you have direct influence with. Right now, you may be thinking that it's their problem if they don't want to come and get saved. Well, instead of you serving them by having them over for dinner or accepting their invitations, you want them to serve you and come to your church and get your religion crammed down their throat. Without a two-way relationship this is how most sinners will see the situation, and they'll see you as judgmental and self-righteous because you keep blowing them off for your church events. Just because they don't want to come to your church, doesn't mean you can't have an impact in their lives. If you can't sacrifice a bit of church time now and again to spend time with unsaved loved ones when they ask you to dinner, you've missed the whole point of following Jesus' example.
Another factor is if you meet sinners outside of the church, such as at work, the first thing you feel compelled to do is 'sell' your church to them. And if they're not interested, you don't know how to relate to them on any other level. You've been taught not to spend time with them if they're not interested in "getting saved". Talking about anything else with that person is almost repulsive, because you don't want to have any form of relationship with unsaved people that might supposedly influence you for the worse (you might get some kind of spirit on you). You become so caught up in your Christian bubble, that you slowly lose the ability to function and relate to people outside of church.
If you need to constantly be at church because you’re an example and you're “doing it for God”, at what point is it too much? 10-day revivals? Two-week long revivals? Concerts on Friday and Saturday night? If it's all for God, why not just have church every night of every week? What would be wrong with that? If you loved God you'd want to be in His house all the time. That kind of thinking has a ring of holiness to it, but it's manipulation.
Where do you fit family time and other demands of life in all this? There needs to be a balance that you work out yourself according to your personal needs and convictions and the needs of your family – not a balance dictated to you by the church. Remember your church is not God. God is God. Not being at a church service does not mean you are rejecting God. You need to work out your own salvation. Do not think you need to be at every single event if it is clearly becoming too much. If you have responsibilities at your church, then you need to fulfill those within reason or talk to your pastor about a compromising arrangement. I'm not talking about shirking your duties on a whim.
God did not guarantee that if you are at every church service, concert and prayer meeting, that He will magically take care of your education, your finances and your relationship with your spouse. God gave us free will to find a balance between maintaining our Christian walk and maintaining our earthly lives appropriately. Put God first in your life, put family second, and church attendance third. Sprinkle it all with a bit of common sense.
More information:
Performance-Based Spirituality (external link)
Spiritual Abuse (external link)
Personal Revelations
The Christian Bubble
Control in Black and White
As with all things, there is a balance to what is written here. The goal of addressing these issues is to highlight where the balance has been tipped, and to help bring things back into perspective. The links listed provide further information and/or scriptural support.
Here is another one for you
. This sort of vision breeds clones, and, it forces people into an expression of ministry maybe God has not put on their heart.
